Mail Bag, 05/17/1997

From:	steve@trainweb.com
Date:	5/17/97  7:58:29PM
To:	ruthb@fremont.vegasnet.org
CC:	Stephen Grande
Subject:	Re: Summer Rail Trip

David,

Thanks for your e-mail! I'm going to post it to the "Mailbag" rather
than "Travelogues" since it is your plans for your trip rather than
writings about a trip you have completed. I'm going to post it to
the mailbag right away though this will take a bit of doing since
I haven't posted anything to the mailbag since last November,
6 months ago! After I post your e-mail, I'm going to see if I can
post the backlog of other items that have been waiting. When
you return, do be sure to send me your travelogue and I'd be
more than happy to post that too so everyone can share your
experience.

>     Dear Steve,
>     
>     	We have made our plans for our croos country summer rail trip.  This is
>     our last major vacation for a long time.  Next year is my senior year in
>     high school and with college around the corner, we're going to be in the
>     hole. 
>     	I took an hour to make reservations over the phone.  However, we were
>     able to reach an agent right away instead of having to call back every
>     minute. The trip will be from about July 20 to earyl August.
>     Here's the itineary
>         Las Vegas to Bakersfield          Thruway Bus
>         Bakersfield to Oakland            San Joaquins
>                    (layover in Oakland)
>         Oakland to Chicago	            California Zephyr
>         Chicago to New York               Three Rivers
>                    (spend a few days at my grandma's house in Manhasset)
>         New York to Montreal              Adirondack
>                    (spend a few days at my mom's brother's house)
>         Montreal to Toronto               VIA Rail
>                    (spend time at my mom's parents' condo)
>         Toronto to Buffalo                Thruway Bus
>         Buffalo to ALbany                 Empire Service
>         Albany to Chicago                 Lakeshore Limited
>         Chicago to LA                     Southwest Chief
>         LA to Las Vegas                   Thruway Bus
>     
>     	The most confusing part of our trip is the journey from Toronto to
>     Chicago.  The Maple Leaf from Toronto to New York is no longer in
>     service.  And the International from Toronto to Chicago is fully
>     booked.  When we arrive in Buffalo, it is about 10 A.M.  The Lakeshore
>     Limited does not arrive until 2 A.M.  According to my mom, Buffalo is a
>     boring city and there is nothing much to do.  The Empire Service departs
>     at about noon or so and arrives in Albany at 6 P.M.  The Lakeshore
>     Limited arrives at 9 P.M.  So riding the Empire Service is just to kill
>     time and see upstate New York.

Well, you are right about the confusion. You have me confused about
your statement that the Maple Leaf is no longer in service between
Toronto and New York. I just purchased a ticket for that train 2 days
ago, May 16, 1997, and have the tickets right here in front of me. The
day of travel is 07JAN98. ViaRail operates the Maple Leaf from Toronto
to the boarder and calls it Train #6400. Amtrak operates the Maple Leaf
from the border to New York City and calls it Train #64. I also have the
new "National TImetable" effective May 11, 1997 and it lists the Maple
Leaf with no note about any discontinuatin of service. Let me know if
you find further informtion about why the agent told you it was no longer
in service.

My wife spent 4 years at the University of New York at Buffalo and
she confirms that there weren't many exciting things to do there.
She also said it got pretty cold in the winter too!

>     	We were almost in a bad situation getting from Chicago to LA.  The
>     agent said that the Southwest Chief was fully booked.  I said to myself,
>     "Too bad the Texas Eagle is going out of service."  (or was supposed
>     to)  However, the agent was able to get us the last three seats on that
>     train.  Since the Desert Wind is discontinued, I assunme the Southwest
>     Chief will be full forever, unless a second one is instituted.  Thanks

Wow! Just for a joy ride, I took the Southwest Chief from San Bernardino
to Los Angeles and was surprised to see how full it was.  It isn't unusual
for Sleepers to be fully booked this close to your journey. I'm almost
surprised you were able to book a sleeper on the Southwest Chief
this close to your travel, especially 2 Deluxe Sleepers as you stated
below. The Texas Eagle is another story. Many people who
have taken the Eagle, including myself, do not believe it could
possibly have been cancelled due to lack of ridership. Fortunately
it has lived on and Amtrak has managed to put the squeeze on
Texas to help put in some funds to keep it going. I don't think it is
fair to single out Texas, but I'm glad the Eagle is alive. 

>     for your tip on disembarking from the San Joaquins.  We just have to
>     remember to tell the conductor before he tries to ditch in Emeryville. 
>     We'd like to spend the night in a hotel, not in a train parked in a
>     railyard.  

I wouldn't worry about that anymore. When I ran into that problem,
most San Joaquins ended in Emeryville and only some went on to
Jack London Square in Oakland. Now ALL of the San Joaquins
go all the way to Oakland. With that change, a lot of people now
take the train all the way and there is little chance of the Conductor
not realizing there are still passengers going beyond Emeryville
anymore.  Are you taking the very last San Joaquin of the day?
If so, it is almost guaranteed to be the new Amtrak California Cars.
3 trainsets of the San Joaquins are the new California Cars and
one is the old Horizon Cars. I know the first and last trains of the
day are the California Cars but get mixed up which of the middle
of the day trains are the Horizon Cars. I think it is the next to last
train that is the Horizon Cars.

>     	We will be traveling first class on the California Zephyr and the
>     Southwest Chief.  We originally wanted the family bedroom, but it was
>     sold out.  We ended up with a deluxe one for both ways.  There were only
>     two left on the Southwest Chief.  It will cost an additional $750 each

Deluxe Bedrooms! That really is about as first class as you can get!
Were you able to get B&C or D&E ? If you did, you can open the sliding
door between the two and have a Deluxe Suite!!!

>     way for first class.  I've instructed my mom and dad to eat as much food
>     as possible in the diner.  We have to get our money's worth. By the way,
>     do they limit how many desserts per person you can order when traveling
>     first class? I hope that the LakeShore Limited is not majorly late

Most people I have spoken with have the opposite problem: trying to
resist eating so much just because there is so much food! Soup and
salad are available with dinner and often with lunch too, and some
people have both. A beverage comes with each meal (except alcohol
which is extra) and you can get as many refils as you want. Many
people have both juice and coffee with breakfast plus something
cold and then coffee with lunch and dinner. A lot of people also ask
for some bottled water in addition to whatever else they order to drink.
For many breakfast items, sides of bacon, sausage and toast are
available in addition to the main course and a lot of people order
all 3 ! I've had the staff almost insist that I order a side of bacon
or sausage even when I didn't want it! They were afraid that I was
skipping it I didn't know it was free. I knew it was included, but
just didn't want to eat that much! Probably would be no problem
ordering more than one desert, but you might get strange looks.
However, it is not uncommon to order pie or cake and have it
"a la mode" even if ice cream is listed as a seperate desert.

>     getting into Chicago.  I don't want to miss the Metropolitan Lounge. For
>     $750 additional each way, I'm praying hard that our car will be a
>     Superliner II or rebuilt Superliner I.  My mom said to my dad and I ,"

Pray real hard. There are only a few Superliner II's to go around.
All the Coast Starlight equipment is Superliner II. There is also a
route east of Chicago that is all Superliner II, but I forgot which one.
The remaining Superliner II Coaches are scattered around and I've
rarely encountered one on other routes, once on the Southwest
Chief but never again and never on the California Zephyr have I
seen a Super2. I'm not sure what you mean by a rebuilt
Superliner I. If you have info about changes or upgrades they
have made in the rebuilding process, please let me know!
Personally, I don't consider the differences to be that significant.
The thing I most appreciate about the Superliner II is the more
professional color scheme instead of the bright red, orange and
lime color scheme of the Superliner I cars!

>     All this time I was willing to fly but you guys are afraid of flying." 
>     I don't like flying because there is not that much room, everyone flys (
>     train passengers seem to be better), and there is no food.  To make her
>     feel better, I calculated the cost of the air rail plan, and it was the
>     same price first class(on the train).  The only hotel we are staying in
>     is in Oakland.  By staying with relatives, we eliminate the cost of
>     lodging and food.  And since we found out that a Thruway Bus operates
>     between LA and Las Vegas, we did not have to pay for GreyHound
>     transportation.  I'm really looking forward to this trip.  I plan to
>     write a HTML travelogue and take pictures and send them to you for
>     posting on Trainweb.
>     
>     						Sincerely,
>     						David Betowski

I'll be looking forward to that travelogue and photos! Which hotel
will you be staying at in Oakland? The only "First Class" hotel is
the "Waterfront Hotel" right in Jack London Square. Two other
hotels which are a lot less expensive but are good enough for me
are the Jack London Inn and the Best Western Inn at the Square,
also within walking distance of the train station.

Steve Grande
steve@trainweb.com
http://trainweb.com

>     Hi Steve,
>     
>     I just came across the mailbag section of your Web site. I have a few
>     comments on one of your letters.
>     
>     >>The most confusing part of our trip is the journey from Toronto to
>     >>Chicago. The Maple Leaf from Toronto to New York is no longer in
>     >>service. And the International from Toronto to Chicago is fully
>     >>booked. When we arrive in Buffalo, it is about 10 A.M.  The Lakeshore
>     >>Limited does not arrive until 2 A.M.  According to my mom, Buffalo is
>     >>a boring city and there is nothing much to do.  The Empire Service
>     >>departs at about noon or so and arrives in Albany at 6 P.M.  The
>     >>Lakeshore Limited arrives at 9 P.M.  So riding the Empire Service is
>     >>just to kill time and see upstate New York.
>     
>     >Well, you are right about the confusion. You have me confused about
>     >your statement that the Maple Leaf is no longer in service between
>     >Toronto and New York. I just purchased a ticket for that train 2 days
>     >ago, May 16, 1997, and have the tickets right here in front of me. The
>     >day of travel is 07JAN98. ViaRail operates the Maple Leaf from Toronto
>     >to the boarder and calls it Train #6400.
>     
>     That's not correct. Amtrak calls the Canadian portion of the trip #6400,
>     so that's how it appears in the Amtrak reservation system, but VIA Rail
>     calls it #97. Similarly for its northbound counterpart; Amtrak calls it
>     #6300, but VIA calls it #98.
>     
>     And yes, they are still running, though the departure time of #97 from
>     Toronto has changed from 09:30 to 10:05.
>     
>     I am amazed that the International would be sold out over two months in
>     advance. I'm almost sure this must be a mistake, just like the report
>     the Maple Leaf is no longer operating. I rode it a year ago (May 1996).
>     I booked my seat a few weeks in advance, and the train wasn't crowded at
>     all. If you want to go from Toronto to Chicago this way, you should try
>     again to book a seat.
>     
>     Another possibility would be to take VIA #71 from Toronto to Windsor (dp
>     Toronto 08:40, arr Windsor 12:36), take a cab to Detroit, then take
>     Amtrak #355 (dp Detroit 17:13, arr Chicago 21:57) from Detroit to
>     Chicago. You could also take VIA #73 (dep Toronto 12:30, arr Windsor
>     16:24), but that only gives you 49 minutes for the transfer from Windsor
>     to Detroit. That would be plenty of time if everything went well, but it
>     doesn't allow much leeway for a late train, problems at customs, etc.
>     Taking #71 from Toronto to Windsor and having a few hours to kill is
>     probably safer.
>     
>     Tom Box    Montreal, QC, Canada

Tom,

For some strange reason, when I saw your e-mail address
of "tbox@total.net", I thought you were going to tell me
something about the Amtrak coupon on the back of a
Total cereal box!

Thanks for that clarification on the Maple Leaf Canadian numbers.
It didn't cross my mind that Amtrak and VIA would have different
numbers for the same train!

If the agent told David that the Maple Leaf no longer existed,
then I think that makes all the information provided by that
agent suspect. Maybe the agent just plugged in the two endpoints
into the reservation system and made his own conclusions about
"sold out" and "doesn't exist" when the reservation system came
back with a different itinerary than David wanted. I can only
guess about that.

Personally, I will be traveling those various routes in
January of 1998. You can take a look at the bottom of:
http://trainweb.com/travel/sgnalogs.htm
for info about those plans.

Thanks again for that info!

Steve Grande
steve@trainweb.com
http://trainweb.com